repost link, How to fix a stock Crack

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72 usmc
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repost link, How to fix a stock Crack

Post by 72 usmc »

Martin 08 was a former member and this is his updated post that I have provided a link to, it still has its pictures intact. Some of Candyman's posts are now missing photos, so some may find Martin's post helpful. Back in the day he learned from Candyman and his post is excellent information, very well done, and somewhat hard to find. I miss his many excellent posts. Source : russian-mosin-nagant.com
Screen Shot 2020-06-28 at 10.54.46 PM.png
SEE:
https://russian-mosin-nagant.com/stock_repair.html
FOR the stock repair post see link above .
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:04 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: repost link, How to fix a stock Crack

Post by 72 usmc »

As for the dowel I use hard wood and it is smaller than the drilled hole. Some use fiberglass fishing pole segments for pins or small dowels. Bamboo is a good choice too for smaller pins/dowels. If the crack is on the side of a stock one can glue the crack or reenforce the back with fiberglass cloth, then use tiny vertically placed pins to hold the glued crack together. Candyman has a post on side cracks and hand guard repairs. This is one that still has pictures.
http://www.surplusrifleforum.org/viewto ... =61&t=1218

I do it differently. I glue the crack and then use tiny vertical pins to hold the crack together & strengthen the glue bond.
But back to wrist cracks :arrow:

I rough up the dowels surface with X-acto line cuts around the circumference of the dowel so the epoxy has more surface area to grab. I also use a small, long X-acto blade to cut lines into the sides of the drilled hole. This is only for the first inch or so of the hole so the inside has more surface area for epoxy to grab. The hole size also also makes a difference if it's inside can be roughed up. It's not possible on small needle size pin dowels. Some use Devcon 2 ton 30min set epoxy that can be thinner in order to force it into the crack with a hypodermic needle. A secondary beveled dowel can be used to slightly force the crack open and allow you to insert the needle and epoxy into the crack. Some use a fiberglass cloth around the dowel for a stronger repair that grabs the roughen surface of the dowel. How ever and what ever approach you use, be sure the dowel does not force open the crack, the clamping should force the crack so tight that it is hardly visible. Always pad any clamp to avoid marks on the stock; 1/4 inch rubber helps to avoid marking the stock. Always save the drill dust to help blend in repairs. You can make a wood putty from the dust with the epoxy to fill over the top of the dowel hole so it is not visible on the inside of the stock. This is used with pins to fill the upper part of the hole after a bamboo or brass pin is set slightly below the wood line. The dust/glue putty fills in the upper portion of the hole covering the pin so it does not appear as a drilled pin hole. Here is a slightly different, but similar approach done by Candyman.
http://www.surplusrifleforum.org/viewto ... =61&t=1229
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:30 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: repost link, How to fix a stock Crack

Post by 72 usmc »

Remember use Brownells Acraglas, Devcon, clear, 2 ton epoxy, or a high grade marine epoxy. Other glues just do not stand up to the test of time. Some let lose after the shock of shooting the rifle. NEVER USE Gorilla glue. I use Titebond III to make the dust putty for longer work time. Titebond III works great on dry wood, but not so well if it is cosmo/oil soaked wood. The above mentioned glues work better for wood splices or dowel placement. High quality glue is a must, do not go cheep on your choice of glue.

Devcon link info: at ACE https://www.esslinger.com/devcon-2-ton- ... gJX2PD_BwE
Devcon epoxy is a clear, extremely strong, non-shrinking adhesive, specially formulated for high-clarity and good impact strength. Use Devcon Epoxy adhesive for household, industrial, crafts or for any job that requires a high-strength, high-quality bond that is water-proof and dries clear. This Rapid-curing, general-purpose adhesive/encapsulant which easily dispenses and mixes in seconds, dries in 15 minutes and reaches functional strength in 1 hour. Works best on metal, wood, concrete, glass, fiberglass, stone ceramics, china and much more. Syringe style dispenser tubes allow you to release equal parts of both epoxy and hardener. Epoxy sets in 30 minutes with strength up to 2,500 lbs. per square inch.

Bonds rigid durable substrates such as metals, glass, china, stone, fiberglass ceramics, concrete and wood in all combinations
Epoxy is waterproof and dries Clear
Includes 2 tubes connected by the plunger
2 part epoxy easily mixes to 1:1 ratio
Resists salt solution, unleaded gasoline, mineral spirits, oil and anti-freeze
Sets in 30 minutes and cures in 8-12 hours
.84 oz. size (Listed sizes are total weight divided into 2 tubes)
Can be tinted with pigment or chalk to add color
Brownells Acra glass see above highlighted link,
The industry-standard stock bedding compound for more than a generation, Acraglas is now available in a full-featured kit with everything the professional gunsmith needs for taking on almost any-size bedding or repair job. Available with original-formula Acraglas, the hard, durable, non-shrinking bedding and accurizing compound preferred by riflesmiths all over the world, or longer-curing Acraglas Gel, with its butter-smooth consistency that won’t run, drip, or leach, and a stable, molecular lattice structure that won’t crack, craze, or “sugar out.” These self-contained kits come with everything you need to get the job done—except the rifle. Both include plenty of hardener, dyes, release agent, solvent/thinner, measuring/mixing cups, applicators, masking materials, and instructions. You also get fast-setting Acra-Quick™ and Acra-20™ two-part epoxies for fast repairs. Acra-Quick/Acra-20 are unmatched for strength, hardening speed, and their ability to bond to almost any material, including wood, metal, and plastics with all the famous strength and holding power of Acraglas. The kit also includes the reusable, “goof proof” applicator gun that automatically mixes epoxy and hardener in to a precise 1-to-1 ratio for proper bonding as you apply it to the work area.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:27 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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72 usmc
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Re: repost link, How to fix a stock Crack

Post by 72 usmc »

If you need to match or do the stock color some tricks here:

my old post:
http://www.surplusrifleforum.org/viewto ... f=61&t=375

CMP stock cleaning and USGI colors
https://thecmp.org/wood-cleaning-article/
http://old.thecmp.org/training-tech/arm ... g-article/
Last edited by 72 usmc on Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: repost link, How to fix a stock Crack

Post by 72 usmc »

GUN TEST'S Extreme Gun Stock Repair

Way too Extreme of a stock repair, but some other ideas for those that can not find a replacement stock. I would just rather get a replacement stock.
https://www.gun-tests.com/special_repor ... -7Pgi2ZPfE

For oil removal I use the hot car method in summer, this works. :think: :dance: :dance: :clap: Rags or litter around the rifle in a black plastic heavy lawn/leaf bag and placed in the back window on a hot sunny day> I avoid oven cleaner- it's just bad news- :doh: :doh: :doh: :snooty: :snooty: :snooty:
From the comments in the above link:
The author has great repair tips, but I found an even better way to remove the most stubborn oil and grease from wood, even stocks that have been coated with cosmoline for the past 60 years.

I strip off the worst of it using plain old mineral spirits, or a spray on degreaser like super clean. Just spend a few minutes on it. The authors scrubbing with detergent and hot water would probably work even better, or the oven cleaner.

Then I fill a black plastic garbage bag with that driveway oil absorbent stuff that looks like cat litter, and put the stock inside.

Roll it up and tape everything into a long tube, so the stock is surrounded on all sides by 2-3" of this material. Then just lay it on your dash in the hot sun for about a week or so. Leave the windows in your car rolled up. Obviously this works better in the summer. The bag will get HOT.

After 7-8 days unroll it, and you'll be amazed. The stock will be completely bone dry. Every ounce of oil will be sucked out of it. I had an ancient greasy SMLE stock from 1943 have the little wedges in the forend upper piece fall out, because the stock was actually dessicated.

The oil soaking material will be discolored and almost black in some cases.

I like this method because other than the initial cleaning, there's no chemicals or scrubbing or harsh detergents involved.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: repost link, How to fix a stock Crack

Post by 72 usmc »

Here is a old post at milsurps about a duffle cut repair by Badger (brass pins) :
Concise version:
https://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r= ... duffle-cut

Badger's Original long post & comments:
https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread ... uot-(pics)


Anvil 9 DUFFLE SHUFFLE
This a a great failed repair, why it failed, and how to correct it. For a cut stock piece-in or duffle cut. See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrUm3rmzrc4


Anvil 4 Making an Omelette , Badly cracked Gew 91
Here is the cracked, and I mean, a crazy cracked GEW 91 stock and its repair referred to in the above video. Also good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP3HFUaFgqA
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Re: repost link, How to fix a stock Crack

Post by 72 usmc »

Some good links reposted
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Re: repost link, How to fix a stock Crack

Post by 72 usmc »

72 usmc wrote: Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:54 pm Martin 08 was a former member and this is his updated post that I have provided a link to, it still has its pictures intact. Some of Candyman's posts are now missing photos, so some may find Martin's post helpful. Back in the day he learned from Candyman and his post is excellent information, very well done, and somewhat hard to find. I miss his many excellent posts. Source is russian-mosin-nagant.com SEE: https://russian-mosin-nagant.com

For the stock repair see:
https://russian-mosin-nagant.com/stock_repair.html
FOR the repair post see index link above :arrow: & click on that link.
Post restored 27June 2020
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72 usmc
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Re: repost link, How to fix a stock Crack

Post by 72 usmc »

Gorilla gun on gun stocks :shifty: :shifty: sucks... here is some attitude :snooty:
Gorilla glue is made of urethane and once cured, it is true common gun solvents will have little effect on it. Removal is difficult if the repair fails. The only thing to remove urethane is heat. Gorilla Glue has a tendency to expand and foam up with air bubbles within the thicker applications that drip all over the place on inexpensive, low quality, press wood furniture. That is a perfect use for this garbage. Gorilla Glue expands to 3-4 times its surface application during the reaction/setup stage, and requires water or moisture for activation on the wood. A wee bit of moistue is best. Yes, GG foams up and fills a wide crack, but the bond strength is not too great. For me it is best to get the closest fit you can, no air bubbles in the glue filling a void. It is best to clamp the crack if you can, or splice in some kind of reenforcement.

I find a real epoxy, like Brownells Arcaglass or Devcon, can be slightly more flexible, and adheres better. It also takes a stain better. With epoxies you can add wood dust fillers to make it as thick as you want or so it is easier to stain. Gorilla glue is good for other woodworking projects especially where it involves stuff like plywood or press wood. Just not for vintage clocks, furniture, gun stocks, or boats for that matter. For a hair line crack, I'd use Titebond III before I'd use the gorilla glue. You will get it into the crack easier and end up with a less visible glue line. I prefer Decon 5 min. epoxy for tight cracks.

If you must use garbage, a hint is too heat the Gorilla Glue. A trick is to put the glue bottle in hot water, this thins out the stuff so it goes into cracks easier and also moisten the wood, Not wet. Wipe out excess, you want just a moist wood surface so GG sticks. Use GG sparingly because as mentioned it expands quite a bit and is a dog to get off the stock's finish if it bubbles out & drys while not watching it. Do not even think of water if using other epoxy glues. With Titebond III or hide glue, I never had the need to moisten the surface. Just have clean wood surfaces.

So almost any glue will join wood. For how long and under impact.... Some glues are better than others. You have Titebond 1-3 (I always favor Titebond III), polyurethane glues (Gorilla glue), epoxies, Brownells Arcaglass, cyanoacrylates (super glue), and real hide glues. ALL will repair a broken stock. I also dis-like superglue- a gun stock is not a model boat or airplane. SG is great for this work, instant bond. Hide glues on vintage furniture repairs are used so a joint can be taken apart later, hide glue is very strong. Not what I'd use on a gun stock.

:whistle: My 2 cents of information: think Titebond III, Devcon 2 ton epoxy or the 5 min. Devcon 2 ton depending on working time required. I use this on repairing vintage lead toy soldiers. Brownell's Acraglass is Best for large repairs to be sanded or add wood dust fillers to allow for better color match. I like to use Brownell's Acraglass for my large area repairs, but a clear epoxy like Devcon 2 Ton Epoxy with the 30 min. set time can be used just as nicely. Easy to obtain, and just as strong, Devcon can be used easier for small cracks & repair areas. If you are using a mesh fiberglass cloth for reenforcement please consider Brownell's Acraglass.

Do not use super glue, wood glues, or any of the cheep 5 min. epoxys, or stinking superglue, they will not hold up in the long run. Invest in a quality glue, marine boat grade epoxy is also good, but expensive and comes in huge containers. Do not use old glue, throw aged glues & definitely epoxy ones sitting on the shelf over one year. Throw the old stuff out. Always use fresh stuff. As a wood filler on houses for rotton wood, I love Abatron WoodEpox Epoxy Wood Replacement Compound. This can be also be used, I'd rather splice in new wood on a stock or house. But if a section is missing it forms better than Brownell's Acraglass unless you add a filler to form a play dough like putty.

An interesting QUOTE:
Glue-repaired stock
f'Way back when epoxy glue was a brand-new thing--at least to civilians--The NRA tested it as a stock repair glue. They reported the results in the American Rifleman, which issue I don't have on hand to cite, since this was many years ago.

The report, however, was glowing, with regard to repairing stocks with epoxy glue. The Rifleman staff deliberately broke a rifle stock at the wrist, then repaired the break with epoxy. They then tried to break the stock again in the same place. They stated that they found this impossible--the repair was stronger than the original wood.

They went on to state that epoxy was obviously the way to go in stock repairs, and that now any gun owner could do a neat, strong repair on a stock break, rather than relying on a skilled woodworker using drilling, dowels, and wood glue to make a repair that would MAYBE hold up.

Since then I've glued many things with epoxy, including 1 or 2 gunstocks, and have yet to have an epoxy repair fail in any situation except once with a very heavy, oily wood under very great stress. I would not hesitate to glue a gunstock of any ordinary wood with epoxy, and afterwards use it hard.

The only thing that is stronger for gluing wood, IMX, is resourcinol glue (the stuff used to make laminated wood beams) which is very hard to find on the civilian market. And resourcinol leaves a dark glue line, unlike epoxy which can be colored, but in its natural state sets more or less clear.

An afterthought: You are asking about a milsurp rifle, and that means cosmoline. NO GLUE can hold properly to wood with any kind of grease on/in it--you want to clean the cosmo from the broken wood **thoroughly** before attempting to glue it. I'd even use horrid solvents, oven cleaner, steam, all sorts of things that are nasty to wood, to remove the cosmoline, prior to the repair. Then when the glue is set, you'll have to refinish the wood with more than usual care.
Smokey Joe, Dec 11, 2006 #4
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Re: repost link, How to fix a stock Crack

Post by 72 usmc »

:shhh:
Why not use a heated, or even liquid, hide glue? They're good and strong, so why not? Well, heated hide glues are used so a joint can be taken apart later, if necessary. Yes, they're very strong, but they're not ideal for several reasons. We don't all have access to a glue pot or the animal glue. It takes too much time and effort to setup just for a simple repair. And we don;t ever want to take the joint apart. And liquid hide glues, while bottled for convenient use, don;t offer the same strength and benefit of yellow glue, though they are good for a quick, simple repair on other wood projects. Nope. Not for rifle stocks.
source https://www.shootersforum.com/threads/b ... 976/page-2


The Best information sum is below in the quote taken from the above reference link:
From StretchNM:
Virtually ANY glue will join wood and do the job. Some are better than others, hence the reason for this thread. You have yellow and white glues, polyurethane glues (Gorilla glue), epoxies, Accraglass (which I suspect is an epoxy resin [with fiber additives]), cyanoacrylates (super glues), and hide glues. ALL of those mentioned would repair a broken stock, yes...even the super glues.

Water resistance is nice but not necessary. For example, Titebond has been mentioned. It's a yellow aliphatic resin, the same as any other yellow glue on the market (Elmers, Franklin, etc). Fix your stock, let it cure, then stand it on-end soaking in the bathtub for three days. It's not coming apart. hehehe But.....how much water resistance do we need for a gun stock? If we drop our Remington pump in the lake for a week, and forgot to use a waterproof glue, and the stock breaks again, we've got bigger problems than stock repair. What we're talking here is resistance......water resistance.....not proofing. Got a little rain or snow on your favorite Ruger rifle? You used the correct glue for repair - a yellow glue.

Titebond II (and the newer Titebond III) have a much greater water resistance than regular aliphatic resin glue. Now, you would use that type of glue if you were building some teak (or oak, or cedar, or....) patio chairs that were expected to sit out in the weather throughout the seasons. And...while either glue will work on a rifle stock, it is wholly uneccessary. But if you knew, for example, that when hunting with one particular rifle, it was going to get rained and snowed on every time, and that dampness would sit on the rifle for hours on end until you got home and could wipe it dry.....then you would want a more resistant resin like Titebond 2 or 3. Most rifles wouldn;t fall into this category, no matter where you were hunting, but maybe a few might.

Epoxies will work fine for a wood repair, but again, they're uneccessary. Plus, they're less likely to last. How is that, when we know epxoy glues are truly super adhesives? Well, epoxy dries to a hard, brittle cure. Yes, they have incorporated in them some toughness - some elasticity, but at their core they're brittle. And waterproof...no water will penetrate them. But when we're gluing wood, we need the fibers to join in a cellular fashion. This is where the aliphatic resins shine, and this is why they're used in woodworking. As wood expands and contracts with changes in humidity, the woods fibers (inside the glued joint) must be able to act accordingly. Yellow and white glues (and animal hide glues - very good!) allow this to occur, while still keeping the fibers joined at the cellular level. Now, I didn;t write the book on this - I'm too much of a layman for that, I'm just repeating what I've learned and experienced. A guy can go and read and learn about different glues and their properties.

Why not use a heated, or even liquid, hide glue? They're good and strong, so why not? Well, heated hide glues are used so a joint can be taken apart later, if necessary. Yes, they're very strong, but they're not ideal for several reasons. We don't all have access to a glue pot or the animal glue. It takes too much time and effort to setup just for a simple repair. And we don;t ever want to take the joint apart. And liquid hide glues, while bottled for convenient use, don;t offer the same strength and benefit of yellow glue, though they are good for a quick, simple repair on other wood projects. Nope. Not for rifle stocks.

Anyway, the summary is: if a guy is making or fixing a wood rifle stock, any glue can be used. The most ideal glue for wood remains yellow or white glue. If the rifle is to be laid against the woodpile and remain there throughout the seasons :D, then a guy might want to use T-bond II or III. Personally, I would recommend a regular yellow glue, and to store the rifle indoors :D

Just a thought........
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Re: repost link, How to fix a stock Crack

Post by 72 usmc »

If you love super glue ( It works great on model airplanes for fast work setting time) :doh: : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-LidIWslHM

If you love gorilla glue ( I'd use Devcon or Titebond III) :snooty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-HdLKcSu1w

If you like pins & epoxy on a wrist crack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuQxjCI8OdQ

If you like arcaglas on a major duffle cut repair (notice pin repairs): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPpq4o1XtjY

If you like yellow glues and wood pins on a side crack (I'd use Devcon epoxy) :shhh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIqORCDO-8U

So there is more than some Micky Mouse stuff going on in the videos (Use ideas with a grain of salt). There are Numerous ways to approach a crack or break. I use pins of fiberglass fishing rod sections, bamboo chop sticks, metal: brass or screws, or just hardwood dowels ( some nice suggestions in the video on how to do pins & when), but I use different glues. MY choice is Brownells Acraglas, Devcon clear, 2 ton epoxy, or a high grade marine epoxy and also Titebond III. Other glues just do not stand up to the test of time. Some let lose after the shock of shooting the rifle. I NEVER USE Gorilla glue :snooty: . I use Titebond III to make the dust putty for longer work time. Titebond III works great on dry wood, but not so well if it is cosmo/oil soaked wood. The above mentioned glues work better for wood splices or dowel placement. High quality glue is a must (Yep it costs much more), do not go cheep on your choice of glue. And be sure it's fresh not sitting in the shop for 2 years or longer.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.
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