Cleaning rod question vz23 vs vz24

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mblackmac
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Cleaning rod question vz23 vs vz24

Post by mblackmac »

I have recently acquired a vz23 "D" block s/n in a matched stock. I am looking for a cleaning rod to add to it. Is there a difference between the vz23 and vz24 cleaning rods? Is there a difference in the sling between the two models?
I am new to the Mausers and any help would be appreciated.Image
I know the bolt is a 98a and I am looking for a "D" block bolt as well.
72 usmc
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Re: Cleaning rod question vz23 vs vz24

Post by 72 usmc »

Unable to restore photos 6 june 2020. I finally found some photos and added links and got rid of dead reference links updated 1 april 2021.

I do not own a VZ 23, but did have 3 different matching VZ 24 rifles and each had a different original sling. The one I sold had a common VZ sling with the buckle as shown on this VZ 23 at a high end auction.
https://pre98.com/shop/very-scarce-czec ... id=1&pid=3
Screen Shot 2021-04-01 at 7.39.54 PM.png
also this VZ23 with sling at auction:
https://simpsonltd.com/brno-vz23-mauser/#gallery-1
Screen Shot 2021-04-01 at 7.40.53 PM.png
See this one in close up at Czech SLING ID
:hand: http://www.rollanet.org/~stacyw/czech_s ... erview.htm dead link use the Wayback machine below:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190317164 ... erview.htm

Here ia a short write up of a VZ 23 from the Milsurp library with many pictures:
https://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r= ... hort-Rifle
here is a link to just the photos of this vz 23: https://imageevent.com/badgerdog/czechs ... brnomauser

Also another specimen owned by a forum member see:
http://www.surplusrifleforum.org/viewto ... f=11&t=613
Did you see this old post? Did you measure your barrel? On a VZ 23 the barrel shorter: 21.5 inches while on a VZ 24 the barrel is 23 inches.


Robert W.D. Ball in Mauser Military Rifles of the World ,2nd edition 2000, has a photo and write up of the VZ 23 pp. 63-64. His photo shows a sling like shown in the first auction photo provided from Pre 98. He indicates the E 23 acceptance marks are on the left side, barrel is 21.5inches,has the Czechoslovakia Factory for Arms Manufacture, BRNO marking ( CS.ZAVODY N,A ; VYROBU ZEBRINE ; BRNO ) which is different from the VZ 24 marking, and goes into details of the shorter distance between the upper and lower bands. Balls photos of the VZ 23 and VZ 24 have the same sling type and cleaning rod.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:10 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: Cleaning rod question vz23 vs vz24

Post by 72 usmc »

So my Lion marked 1937 VZ24 has this type of sling:
It is a two button tab, fold over marked Czech sling dated 1939
IMG_2651.jpg
IMG_2655.jpg
IMG_2657.jpg
IMG_2656.jpg
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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72 usmc
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Re: Cleaning rod question vz23 vs vz24

Post by 72 usmc »

More of that Early VZ 24 and its typical thick shaft VZ 24 cleaning rod that was the same on all three VZ 24 rifles.

IMG_2670.jpg
IMG_2664.jpg
IMG_2665 copy.jpg
IMG_2665 copy.jpg (48.16 KiB) Viewed 1248 times
IMG_2667.jpg
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cleaning rod question vz23 vs vz24

Post by 72 usmc »

My Persian VZ 24 has a different sling. More of a German cross hatch pattern and a slip through buckle and stitched construction.
IMG_2671.jpg
http://www.surplusrifleforum.org/viewto ... =18&t=1998

Now I believe, but am not positively sure because I have only seen two VZ23 rifles at gun shows ($800 & $950) with intact slings and they had ones like shown in the below link: web site gone here is a Way back machine link to now use:

http://www.rollanet.org/~stacyw/czech_s ... erview.htm VOID
USE https://web.archive.org/web/20190317164 ... erview.htm
photos restored from above source:
czech_sling_overview_all_three.jpg
czech_sling_overview_all_three_buckles.jpg
czech_sling_overview_all_three_buckles.jpg (54.09 KiB) Viewed 1257 times


The cleaning rods were the same as VZ 24 original rods, but both gun show rifles had CAI import marks. I never actually measured the barrels to see if they were actual VZ 23 or one with VZ 24 barreled conversions. The price drove me away because back then A Lion marked VZ 24 was only $250-300.
So I believe the rods are the same, and almost any original sling can be used. It is very difficult to find original VZ buckle slings and I was offered $175 for the marked dog on the Lion crested VZ 24. So an original sling is going to be at least $125 plus $$$. VZ thick original rods can still be found for around $30 -40 bucks. Look at the tip for angled milling cuts, not a straight cut for the slot. Lots of reproductions being passed as originals.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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72 usmc
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Re: Cleaning rod question vz23 vs vz24

Post by 72 usmc »

Here is an odd ball original that I was told was for a VZ, but I have my doubts? I think this came from Numerich Gun parts about 15 years ago??? correct buckle with rear tab and width, but the end is like an old M95 or Mosin sling? Smaller roller buckle and long tab with 5 holes for adjustment. So you see four different original slings on VZ 24 rifles. Check out Balls book.
IMG_2679.jpg
IMG_2675.jpg
IMG_2676.jpg
IMG_2677.jpg
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cleaning rod question vz23 vs vz24

Post by 72 usmc »

Here is a link to fake K98 rods. These are not correct for a VZ, but it gives you an idea what to look for on faked cleaning rods. http://www.webuyrifles.com/rods/rods.htm
Note, a true VZ cleaning rod = The VZ24 rod is 14.75 inches in length, including threads. It is slightly larger in diameter than a K98k rod.

Straight mill in loop = reproduction Straight edges to patch raised head =reproduction. They should taper a wee bit especially the back cut.
12_inch_rods2.jpg
note longer threads reproduction Numerich Gun Parts Fake
12_inch_rods.jpg
-----------------------------
I
Libertytreecollectors also offers some nice rods:
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/p ... ategory=40
DSC08493.JPG
One of my originals- angled mill cuts
IMG_2665 copy.jpg
IMG_2665 copy.jpg (48.16 KiB) Viewed 1242 times
The rod in my 1937 lion crested VZ24 is 14.75" long and 6mm in diameter (1 /16").
There are some nice close up views of the original head and rear threads of the Persian VZ 24 in the link;
http://www.surplusrifleforum.org/viewto ... =18&t=1998
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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mblackmac
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Re: Cleaning rod question vz23 vs vz24

Post by mblackmac »

Thank you for your great information. I just recently acquired this rifle and I am having a good time researching the history the receiver, barrel, stock and trigger guard are all marked with s/n D501. The trigger, front band, and front sight are just marked with a "circle Z".
I will continue in my research.
Thanks again.
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Re: Cleaning rod question vz23 vs vz24

Post by 72 usmc »

Some past info in more detail by me on age solutions and metal treatments:
If you want to age metal it takes some practice, but can be done. The mixture is Hydrogen peroxide, brown mustard and vinegar. This will produce a grayish to brownish to blackish patina depending on the mixture. Apple cider vinegar and 4-8 table spoons of water softener salt will give it a rusted reddish look and works if you want a rusty can look to the metal. Now if you want a more grayish to blackish look then you use white vinegar, hydrorogen peroxide and brown mustard . Use equal parts of vinegar and peroxide with a few table spoons of the mustard. A gray look that is quick is produced by a wipe of diluted toilet bowl cleaner and then a rub with steel wool. The stronger the toilet bowl cleaner the quicker it works. A sort of acid etch surface. Nasty stuff.
Sulfides in the solution produce a brownish patina. If its a cleaned gun surface produced by some nut that likes a new looking metal, then 30w oil on the metal surface followed by a wipe of G96 Gun Blue cream will produce a grey surface. Too much G96 and you get a lighter color blackish patina. Two or 3 applications of G96 cream without any oil on the metal and you will end up with a nice Mosin black. It can also be done with G96 and some high temp, black, grill paint mixed into the G96. Use the pigmented layer at the bottom of the can, best to open a new can and let it air dry overnight so the pigment gets concentrated at the bottom of the can and not so much solution/liquid remains in the can.
So there are lots of solutions to mess with. Just brown mustard and vinegar on an iron Knife will give it a darken surface. For antique repairs I find a beat metal surface is best obtained by the old standby- strong hydrogen peroxide from the women's hair salons-- it's a stronger solution, Brown mustard, and apple cider vinegar or white vinegar less reactive, works fine. The more mustard, the more it darkens metal. This is not so much a rusted looking surface, rather it can produce a brownish to grayish patina. For a rusty can look on new metal, just stick to vinegar and salt; or, if you really want it to rust fast, then use hydrogen peroxide in the normal drug store bottle, rock salt, and white vinegar.

:arrow: :doh: Some caution: hydrogen peroxide and vinegar creates a peracetic acid. And sulfur powder in the mixture or with hydrogen peroxide produces sulfuric acid. It is bad for pets and skin. It is corrosive, posion, and bad to breath in. Nasty stuff, but it does produce grey to brown to blackish patina on metal parts.

You can also buy pre mixed aging solutions for iron, brass, copper, and silver at some antique supply stores. It is a factory made chemical solution that ages the surface of specific metals to produce a aged patina on new repro parts.

To clean use steel wool and hand buffing with a bit of oil to get an old surface so it looks new. Then polish with a cotton buffing wheel. No old firearm has such a nice new surface.

The old GEW 98s had a bare metal polished surface like old wrenches and get that grey patina like old wreches.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.
72 usmc
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Re: Cleaning rod question vz23 vs vz24

Post by 72 usmc »

I am restoring the photos today 1 april 2021, but am adding a few of the missing photos here at the end. Note the great sling ID page(rollanet.org) is history, the owner gave it up due to death or cost, so I linked to the Wayback Machine and provided the link to vz 23&24 slings. Some changes have occurred in the re-edit. I am saving this update on the Wayback Machine.
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IMG_8617_zpsed9f406f.jpg (28.68 KiB) Viewed 1241 times
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72 usmc
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Re: Cleaning rod question vz23 vs vz24

Post by 72 usmc »

Another Vz 24 out of the closet with a nice sling>
On GB https://www.gunboards.com/threads/vz24- ... n.1187998/
:arrow: Pictures from above source:
100_4820.JPG
100_5668.JPG
20190501_191107-jpg.3815829.jpeg
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.
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