A great description of an ATF

Post Reply
72 usmc
Gun Junkie
Gun Junkie
Posts: 3067
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 68
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi

A great description of an ATF

Post by 72 usmc »

Here is an old 2007 post with a great description and information about ATF Turkish Mausers I have read. I just stumbled onto this post. Love it. :ugeek: The last batch of the Turk Mausers.
A photo of this type of rifle. http://www.arms2armor.com/Firearms/turkishATF.htm
Screen Shot 2021-03-21 at 5.15.24 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-03-21 at 5.15.24 PM.png (208.22 KiB) Viewed 499 times
Screen Shot 2021-03-21 at 5.11.59 PM.png
ATF 54 Turkish Rifles

Firstly, let's get this "M38" stupidity well and truely squashed.

M38 ( or more correctly, M938, as printed in Turkish instruction manuals) is not a specific rifle type, but a General Indication of all of Turkey's MAUSER Action rifles, whether Intermediate or Standard length Actions, and whether made in Turkey or Refurbiushed from Foreign (read German) Made MAUSER Rifles.

1938 was chosen because it was (a) the year of the passing of Mustafa KLemal Ataturk, the founder of the Turkisjh republic and its first president ( Turkey's "George Washington"...a Military hero and commander, a head of a revolution, Liberator of his occupied land , and initiator of its Secular Constitution and coming into the Modern World.)

1938 was also the year CZ set up a complete factory in Turkey to MAKE from scratch a truely "Turkish " rifle, with Mauser design, and in the now standardised 7,9 caridge. ( Kirikkale a suburb of Ankara, under the control of the Askeri Fabrikalar (Administration of Army Factories).

By 1950, the AS FA had developed to such a degree that it was re-organised as a Government owned Corporation, and change its name to MKE ( Makina ve Kemia Endustrisi).
In the 1950s, a requirement for a small lot of Refurbished rilfes, led to the production of the "ATF" series, Using WW I Militasry Aid Gew98s as the basis, and converting them/re-furbishing them to the General "M938 design", the same as all the 1930s conversions had been done.
The reason for this was that (A) there were substantial quantities of Gew98s needing rebarrelling or restocking, and (b) the production line of the "Kirikkale" Turkish mauser had ceased production in 1946, and the Factory was now re-tooled for making other things, and about to get into Licensed manufacture of Semi Auto and Full Auto rifles.

The "ATF" stands for "Askeri Tufiki Fabrika ( Army Rifle factory...an Army depot or Workshop dedicated to Repairing Rifles etc, as had existed under ASFA back in the 1930s and 40s, for conversion of WW I rifles to the "New Standard".

The marking "98 Th" indicates the origin of the receiver, as a guide to Unit Armourers; The rifle Looks like a Kirikkale, but the barrel is Large Shank, Not Small shank, as in the K'Kale;
Bolts are the same ( standard M98 length) and the stocks are interchangeable with a little adjustment ( OAL length of Reciever front ring is different) and Wooden handguards are slightly different.

From my Survey ( Parallax Turkish Board) ATF rifles mere " made up" in 1954 to 1956, at a rate of about 5,000 a year.

By the late 1950s, all Turkish Mauser Rifles were relegated to a Turkish Soldiers Conscript training, as the Regular Army was Armed with US Garands, and eventually H&K G3 rifles.

The ATF marked rifles are the last in a series of Turkish Mausers, which stretch from the M1887 BP rifle thru to interned Ex-german Kar98k rilfes, and all the Conversions and refurbishments of the 1930-1956 periods.
All the Modern smokeless Mausers ( M1890 etc) were eventually cvonverted to 7,9mm cartridge, and the stocking up unified into a common pattern ("the M1903" Stock).
THis was to use a common bayonet Hilt for all Turkish Rifles (the M1903/30 type)

Regards,
Doc AV

AV Ballistics.

• Nov 5, 2007

Great post DocAV, thanks for answering questions,(over and over again).
I have two of the ATF 54s-from your post it seems there were only about 15,000 made?


ATF Mausers..15,000 Made?

Yes, Wrench, from my Serial Survey (now a bit dated, haven't added to it for some 18 months) there seems to be a serial spread to indicate only around 15,000 possibly made up.
( ie, No serials over 15,000)

Which figures, as they had started rebuilding Gew98s in 1937, into both Long Rifles and Short Rifles, in small batches (see Survey), 1937SR Series, 1938LR series to 1949,(major part of conversions). The total quantity of MauserWerke 1918 gew98s supplied to Turkey is unknown, but whereas nearly all the German (Imperial)factories in 1918 were making Kar98a and other things, Mauser concentrated on supplying new Gew98s to Turkey, and in fact almost all of its 1918 production was slotted for Turkey.

So the 1954 ATF series was probably just "washing up" the remaining Gew98 rifles in stock for immediate training Use...and even then, they probably stopped early, as we have seen quite a lot of "Turked" Gew98s still showing up in Milsurp...(Gew98, 1917-18 dates, with simple Turkish acceptance mark (Crescent Moon) on receiver, and no other changes.).

Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics
source is: 4 Nov 2007, https://www.gunboards.com/threads/m38-t ... ser.10647/
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.
72 usmc
Gun Junkie
Gun Junkie
Posts: 3067
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
Age: 68
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wi

Re: A great description of an ATF

Post by 72 usmc »

I actually have one, but it is lost in the pile??? I got it way back when Candyman was buying every Turk he could find. Back in the day, they were $79 dogs that shot well due to nice barrels. They gave the Turk 98/22 a run for accuracy. :shhh: :think:
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.
shoot4fun
Member
Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:18 am
Age: 33
Location: Cornfields, Ohhhhhio

Re: A great description of an ATF

Post by shoot4fun »

72 usmc wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:27 pm I actually have one, but it is lost in the pile??? I got it way back when Candyman was buying every Turk he could find. Back in the day, they were $79 dogs that shot well due to nice barrels. They gave the Turk 98/22 a run for accuracy. :shhh: :think:
I remember those days! I bought one that turned out to be very worn. The wood came out great, the metal was very worn, in and out. Chamber closed on field gauge so I made it into a 8mm-06.
viking
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:05 pm
Location: scottsboro.al.

Re: A great description of an ATF

Post by viking »

when they first came in Ray Judge sold me one for 30.00,Atill have it and it shoots great.
User avatar
vandle
Bullet Banger
Bullet Banger
Posts: 728
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:08 pm
Age: 53
Location: Brisbane Australia

Re: A great description of an ATF

Post by vandle »

Still trying to get hold of one, one day maybe
Life is tough, tougher if your stupid

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein
Post Reply

Return to “Turkish Rifles”